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Swiss

function Swiss()
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#21
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nori @ 2-6-2007 @ 12:50 AM) [snapback]2337[/snapback]</div>
Misery is not caused by God, it is caused by the devil. If you don't believe in God, then why do you expect him to save you from anything. This free will thing that God gave us was something, that allowed us to believe him and not believe in him. Also, people complain that the world is such a bad place and that it is so crappy, and full of us. Yes, it is exactly that, but because of the reward that we will get in heaven, the outcome of this planet and universe is not a concern to us. Gods kingdom is Heaven, not Earth. The Earth is now in the hands of the devil, because of the sin commited by Adam in the garden of eden, which led to eternal damnation for all humans.[/b]

whoa!! First of all I thought it was Eve who first sinned so we can't lay all the blame on Adam. Secondly and this is for all of u to hear, God created Lucifer, not satan, but it's because of this curse/blessing called free will that God gave us that Lucifer thought for himself and wanted to know too much, in other words know everything that his master knows and if he knew everything, well he could take control. The last thing that God didn't teach Lucifer was how to give life. And it is that gift that God gave to all of us along with free will, to think for ourselves and do what we want. Therefore we are able to question everything, one common question being, "If there is a God why can't we see him." Well do you know why we can't see him, it's because we have clouded our minds and have not devoted our hearts and soul entirely to him, that's why. God tests all of us to see if we truly trust and are fully devoted to him, that's why sometimes we go through hard times, God wants to see if we will continue to trust in him until the hardship ends. Most of us give up and say "God doesn't exist, if he did I wouldn't be going through this" or "God doesn't care,if he did we wouldn't have to worry about sin", and so many other statements that people make when they give up. Well, I guess all I'm trying to say is and I have already written to much, I'm not sure if I'm repeating myself, anyway let me say what I want to say before I get confused. Yes all I'm trying to say is We all question God, we all go through hard times, but the only way to see if God truly exists is if we stop for a moment, ask ourselves how we came to be, why does our master or father or whoever allow certain things to happen, remember everything happens for a reason and God is watching. He may be just fed up with all of us and that's why he doesn't save us in certain situations. But he still continues to love us no matter what we do and no matter how much we sin he still forgives us. I want to close by saying, If you were God and most or all your people did wrong what would u do. Oh and I'm not sure if anyone understands all of what I'm trying to say, but this is as clear as I can possible get. Sorry if it's too long. These are my views,please don't think I'm pushing anything on anyone or being hurtful.
 

Nori

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#22
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiss @ 2-6-2007 @ 12:04 AM) [snapback]2360[/snapback]</div>
whoa!! First of all I thought it was Eve who first sinned so we can't lay all the blame on Adam. Secondly and this is for all of u to hear, God created Lucifer, not satan, but it's because of this curse/blessing called free will that God gave us that Lucifer thought for himself and wanted to know too much, in other words know everything that his master knows and if he knew everything, well he could take control. The last thing that God didn't teach Lucifer was how to give life. And it is that gift that God gave to all of us along with free will, to think for ourselves and do what we want. Therefore we are able to question everything, one common question being, "If there is a God why can't we see him." Well do you know why we can't see him, it's because we have clouded our minds and have not devoted our hearts and soul entirely to him, that's why. God tests all of us to see if we truly trust and are fully devoted to him, that's why sometimes we go through hard times, God wants to see if we will continue to trust in him until the hardship ends. Most of us give up and say "God doesn't exist, if he did I wouldn't be going through this" or "God doesn't care,if he did we wouldn't have to worry about sin", and so many other statements that people make when they give up. Well, I guess all I'm trying to say is and I have already written to much, I'm not sure if I'm repeating myself, anyway let me say what I want to say before I get confused. Yes all I'm trying to say is We all question God, we all go through hard times, but the only way to see if God truly exists is if we stop for a moment, ask ourselves how we came to be, why does our master or father or whoever allow certain things to happen, remember everything happens for a reason and God is watching. He may be just fed up with all of us and that's why he doesn't save us in certain situations. But he still continues to love us no matter what we do and no matter how much we sin he still forgives us. I want to close by saying, If you were God and most or all your people did wrong what would u do. Oh and I'm not sure if anyone understands all of what I'm trying to say, but this is as clear as I can possible get. Sorry if it's too long. These are my views,please don't think I'm pushing anything on anyone or being hurtful.[/b]
Yes, she is the first person that ate the fruit, but she is not the one who sinned. Adam disobeyed God. Eve was not given a direct order from God, to not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but he did to Adam. Adam was foolish and listened to his wife, which caused them to be kicked out of the garden. So you're argument is wrong, Eve did not sin in this case.
 

Swiss

function Swiss()
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#23
That makes sense but if she did not sin how come she got kicked out of the garden along with Adam.
 

Nori

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#24
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiss @ 2-6-2007 @ 11:12 AM) [snapback]2375[/snapback]</div>
That makes sense but if she did not sin how come she got kicked out of the garden along with Adam.[/b]
Because the sin, as I said (or didn't - can't remember), screwed it up for all of us.
 
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#26
I'm just not religious, I don't believe anything thats written in the Bible since my opinion is that man is the only animal that lies so therefore why should I believe the Bible since it was written by man. And I especially despise the Adam and Eve story.
 
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#27
First off, this thread is made of Win and should be revived post haste. So, here I go!

I am a nondenominational Christian - which means I'm not exactly Catholic or Mormon or Church of England or what have you. I'm just a Christian. Perhaps it comes with the territory - AKA I'm also a Republican [but that's a thread for another day]. My mother is an agnostic - she believes there is some higher power, but not exactly a visible God.

I am probably the worst Christian ever. I have never been to church except once and that was a loooong time ago and I have never read the Bible. Oh yeah, that's right. NEVER. READ. THE. BIBLE. I am just familiar with Jesus' teachings and some of the important stories and I began calling myself a Christian.

The overly extreme Christians scare me. These are the people who firebomb abortion clinics and use soldiers' funerals to protest against gay marriage. I do not associate myself with these fundies because I believe they do not represent true Christianity. I therefore know how my Muslim RL friend Lulia feels when Islamic extremists hijack her religion to further their political agendas.

I'm cool with all religions. Except Jedis - cause that is not fair. *pouts* Honest to God, a guy in the UK is registered as a Jedi for his religion. I'm just mad jealous. Anyhow, I'm cool with any and all religions. I'm also a pretty liberal Christian - I support gay rights and do not believe that divorce is 100% wrong. My poor fundie uncle has married once, divorced, and wants to marry again, but his church says it will look wrong in God's eyes.

To me, God/Jesus/Holy Spirit or just God loves everyone. Doesn't matter your race, creed, color, religion, he freaking loves you. Unless you are a bad seed. In which case, there is no mercy for you. Terrorists, murderers, people with no remorse for their crimes are examples of bad seeds. Basically, to me, if you are a good person, your afterlife is looking pretty sweet. If not . . . um, I'll write to you when you're Down There.

Also, Jesus/Mary Magdalene is my Bible OTP. No other but them. I believe they were married and had kids. Come on - do you really think the Virgin Mary would allow her son to go around a bachelor for the rest of his life? ;D

Comment on what you think about me!
 
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#28
I like your way of thinking, if only more religious people could be as open minded as you. Me, I just really have a hard time believing in god, that dosn't mean I'm against religion, in fact I find it fascinating and fun to analyze. But still you won't see me going to church any time soon, I hate waking up in the morning lol
 
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#29
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haibara @ 3-22-2007 @ 6:23 PM) [snapback]5240[/snapback]</div>
I like your way of thinking, if only more religious people could be as open minded as you. Me, I just really have a hard time believing in god, that dosn't mean I'm against religion, in fact I find it fascinating and fun to analyze. But still you won't see me going to church any time soon, I hate waking up in the morning lol[/b]
Gosh, thanks! :D Maybe you should pursue a career as a religious scholar. I think other religions are fascinating too - especially the ones in Asia. I just read Siddhartha for my AP Lit class, which is a great novel by Hermann Hesse on a fictional Samana's travel to enlightenment, and it taught me a lot about Buddhism. Daoism is odd in the fact that it claims how everything is a hole, the hole is filled but not filled, empty but not empty - very confusing stuff.

I hate waking up in the morning too. If only I could find a church close enough to my house that held evening services and was lax about dress code! XD
 
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#30
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The_Seventh_L @ 3-22-2007 @ 11:30 PM) [snapback]5281[/snapback]</div>
Daoism is odd in the fact that it claims how everything is a hole, the hole is filled but not filled, empty but not empty - very confusing stuff.[/b]
That reminds me of the question "Is the glass half empy or half full?" in a way.
 
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#31
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nori @ February 6, 2007, 10:44 PM) [snapback]2390[/snapback]</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiss @ 2-6-2007 @ 11:12 AM) [snapback]2375[/snapback]
That makes sense but if she did not sin how come she got kicked out of the garden along with Adam.[/b]
Because the sin, as I said (or didn't - can't remember), screwed it up for all of us.
[/b][/quote]
Or did it? I think this might be an interesting interpretation of the Second Commandment:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments[/b]
Original sin is primarily a Catholic teaching. I don't know if we were really born with original sin. If God is just and fair, I don't see any justification for labeling us sinners for what Adam and Eve did. Also, even if that was the case, it's only 3-4 generations down, which means we're safe. Or, since is says "of those who hate me", and neither Ada nor Eve hated God, there is no sin to be passed down.

[The Second Commandment is also my basis for thinking that Catholics are idiots. Well not all Catholics, but the ones in charge. It says not to make images or sculptures, but if you walk into a Catholic Chiurch, it's like a freakin' art museum. They're always urging us to donate our money to the Pope, but all I ever see him doing is stuffing that ridiculous hat of his with more precious stones. What ever happened to selling all you have to the poor? I'd bet that the selling Pope's wardrobe alone could feed feed every homeless person in the world for a day.

Catholics also say you can't eat before receiving Communion, but when Jesus first started that, he did it after the Last Supper. LOL]
 

Entombment

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#32
xD Interesting debate. Stuff like this usually happens with religious discussions. Anyway

Personally, I'm atheist. But, my girlfriend's Wiccan, so I suppose I sort of lean toward that a little

Originally posted by Stephen F. Roberts
I contend that we're both atheists - I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you deny all other gods, you'll understand why I deny yours
Not meant to offend anyone, just a quote I find quite interesting. Basically something to say to the close-minded religious people who believe there way is the only way, and if you don't believe what they do, to them you're evil lol
 
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#33
I have a watch. I conclude that my watch was made by an intelligent being, because my watch is complex - it has hands and gears and things all working together the way they're supposed to. Therefore someone had to create it.

Watches are far less complex than humans

We have humans. I conclude that humans were made by an intelligent being, because humans are complex - they have organs and bone systems and cells all working together the way they're supposed to. Therefore someone had to create them.

If "science" says that nature can create humans, where are the naturally-made watches?
 

Nori

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#34
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Entombment @ April 15, 2007, 6:39 AM) [snapback]5976[/snapback]</div>
xD Interesting debate. Stuff like this usually happens with religious discussions. Anyway

Personally, I'm atheist. But, my girlfriend's Wiccan, so I suppose I sort of lean toward that a little

Originally posted by Stephen F. Roberts
I contend that we're both atheists - I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you deny all other gods, you'll understand why I deny yours
Not meant to offend anyone, just a quote I find quite interesting. Basically something to say to the close-minded religious people who believe there way is the only way, and if you don't believe what they do, to them you're evil lol
[/b]
Eh, that makes you agnostic...
 
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#35
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nori @ April 15, 2007, 3:09 PM) [snapback]5981[/snapback]</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Entombment @ April 15, 2007, 6:39 AM) [snapback]5976[/snapback]
xD Interesting debate. Stuff like this usually happens with religious discussions. Anyway

Personally, I'm atheist. But, my girlfriend's Wiccan, so I suppose I sort of lean toward that a little

Originally posted by Stephen F. Roberts
I contend that we're both atheists - I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you deny all other gods, you'll understand why I deny yours
Not meant to offend anyone, just a quote I find quite interesting. Basically something to say to the close-minded religious people who believe there way is the only way, and if you don't believe what they do, to them you're evil lol
[/b]
Eh, that makes you agnostic...
[/b][/quote]
i NEVER GOT AGNOSTICISM.
 

Entombment

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#36
Actually, no Nori, it doesn't. I'm still atheist either way. I'm just saying, if I ever were to believe in anything, more than likely that'd be it =p
 

Nori

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#37
That's a weird thing to say, considering atheist don't believe in any gods or other deities. And you just basically said, that you believe that there's a higher power.

That makes absolutely no sense.
 
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#38
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nori @ April 17, 2007, 8:57 AM) [snapback]6023[/snapback]</div>
That's a weird thing to say, considering atheist don't believe in any gods or other deities. And you just basically said, that you believe that there's a higher power.

That makes absolutely no sense.[/b]
lol

But atheism has its perks you have to admit... you know, the whole life not having a point, and nothing you do really mattering, and all that.
 

Entombment

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#39
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nori @ April 17, 2007, 7:57 AM) [snapback]6023[/snapback]</div>
That's a weird thing to say, considering atheist don't believe in any gods or other deities. And you just basically said, that you believe that there's a higher power.

That makes absolutely no sense.[/b]
But, that's where the 'if' thing comes in. I never plan on going towards any religion, because personally IMO, they're all a waste of time
 
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#40
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Entombment @ April 20, 2007, 4:13 PM) [snapback]6198[/snapback]</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nori @ April 17, 2007, 7:57 AM) [snapback]6023[/snapback]
That's a weird thing to say, considering atheist don't believe in any gods or other deities. And you just basically said, that you believe that there's a higher power.

That makes absolutely no sense.[/b]
But, that's where the 'if' thing comes in. I never plan on going towards any religion, because personally IMO, they're all a waste of time
[/b][/quote]
Yeah.. eternal salvation and happiness... what a complete waste of time.