"TSA will grope less children"

[Kaze Araki]

Let's try this from a different approach. True, sometimes "terrorism" works. Look at the Founding Fathers. But there is a reason why the Founding Father's approach to terrorism is more or less acceptable and Al Qaeda's is not. The Founding Fathers acquired the support of the people, worked towards creating and independent political system, examined the needs of the people and made the fulfillment of those needs their driving point etcetera. Al Qaeda blows up any building, shoot any person, tears up anything western. They just blow shit up. If Al Qaeda had a track-record, a history, of initiatives, achievements, movements, and the like that they endeavored in the name of the people and 9/11 was simply an act they had to resort to in order to continue an upward trend of contributing to their communities then that would be different. But all they do is just destroy, destroy, destroy. They're organized yes, but mentally they're lower than animals because nothing they do has purpose. It is not the simple act of terrorism, it is the fact that as far as Al Qaeda is concerned, the only act that can ever be taken in any situation is terrorism. As such, they are not aiming to stab at Palestines enemies, they are not trying to unseat America for good reasons, they're just a group of people who aim to destroy.

Terrorism by its very definition contains specific political goals, therefore I reject your argument. I don't see your framing of what Al Qaeda should or should not do has any bearing to the definition of terrorism itself. Terrorism is a mean, and not the goal - and the primary goal of Al Qaeda is to rid of Muslim lands from all western powers.

Of course. :hohoho: We've been over this. If God said pursue the Palestinians with the sword until not one remains, well, when you have to go you have to go. Of course He didn't say "that" but it's very clear that the land belongs to Israel.





We've been over this too. If his book is the Bible then I'd read it for myself and if MY interpretation checks out I'll pack my things and roll. If he's holding the Tao Te Ching or the Koran or something I'll tell him to get the hell off my property before I call the cops.

And therefore force your religion unto others.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

Terrorism by its very definition contains specific political goals, therefore I reject your argument. I don't see your framing of what Al Qaeda should or should not do has any bearing to the definition of terrorism itself. Terrorism is a mean, and not the goal - and the primary goal of Al Qaeda is to rid of Muslim lands from all western powers.

Which they can do through peaceful means if they were truly dedicated to said cause. :smart:

And therefore force your religion unto others.

Not at all. I'm not forcing my religion onto the guy who comes to my house looking to force me to relocate. I'm not forcing my religion onto him, rather I'm simply not acknowledging his. There is only one God Kaze-dono and if my guest comes in the name of someone's pagan creation then we have a problem.

 

[Kaze Araki]

Which they can do through peaceful means if they were truly dedicated to said cause. :smart:

Thus why I can't understand your logic.
Since they choose to use terrorism, that turns them into unreasonable hating madmen?
The U.S. use terrorism, Israel use terrorism - what's differentiate these two from them?
If you're talking about achievement, the U.S. and Israel can boast because their terrorism acts succeed in creating their States.
Al Qaeda has not, and therefore you cannot comment anything on it.
But even worst, I don't think this criteria is even logically valid.

Not at all. I'm not forcing my religion onto the guy who comes to my house looking to force me to relocate. I'm not forcing my religion onto him, rather I'm simply not acknowledging his. There is only one God Kaze-dono and if my guest comes in the name of someone's pagan creation then we have a problem.

By justifying the stripping of the rights of the Palestinian of their homeland, you are already forcing your religion upon them. They do not believe in your religion, yet you support their eviction.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

Thus why I can't understand your logic.
Since they choose to use terrorism, that turns them into unreasonable hating madmen?
The U.S. use terrorism, Israel use terrorism - what's differentiate these two from them?
If you're talking about achievement, the U.S. and Israel can boast because their terrorism acts succeed in creating their States.
Al Qaeda has not, and therefore you cannot comment anything on it.
But even worst, I don't think this criteria is even logically valid.

I'll give it another go and then leave it at that. I already said that "terrorism" as a practice was not an issue in and of itself. The U.S. was built on terrorism. You might say that I'm taking issue to Al Qaeda's terrorism without substance or purpose. When the Founding Fathers separated from the crowne, they had good reasons for doing so. And they only resorted to "terrorism" when all other methods had been exhausted. Terrorism was a last resort. The issue with Al Qaeda is that to them, terrorism is the ONLY resort. If they tried to do things peacefully and THEN resorted to terrorism when acts of diplomacy failed, then I'd cut them some slack. But that isn't the case now is it? I'm not saying that Al Qaeda is filled with madmen because they're terrorists. I'm saying Al Qaeda is filled with madmen because to them, terrorism is the only course of action in their eyes. They've never tried to achieve any aim peacefully, rather they only use violence.

By justifying the stripping of the rights of the Palestinian of their homeland, you are already forcing your religion upon them. They does not believe your religion, yet you support their eviction.

Ah I see. I was referring to my justification for kicking the pagan off my property. I neglected to connect that thought process here. Well the thing is, the Palestinians don't have to believe that God gave the land to the Jews. They don't have to believe anything. They just need to pack up. Palestine can't do what I would do in my example because my God exists, there's does not. They've no authority, no magnate, nothing that God actually recognizes. Israel isn't asking Palestine to believe in the Bible. America isn't asking Palestine to believe in the Bible. All they need to know is that they need to move.

But I can turn your argument around. By staying on that land, is Palestine not forcing its views on the rest of the world?

 

[Bloodrazor]

I'll give it another go and then leave it at that. I already said that "terrorism" as a practice was not an issue in and of itself. The U.S. was built on terrorism. You might say that I'm taking issue to Al Qaeda's terrorism without substance or purpose. When the Founding Fathers separated from the crowne, they had good reasons for doing so. And they only resorted to "terrorism" when all other methods had been exhausted. Terrorism was a last resort. The issue with Al Qaeda is that to them, terrorism is the ONLY resort. If they tried to do things peacefully and THEN resorted to terrorism when acts of diplomacy failed, then I'd cut them some slack. But that isn't the case now is it? I'm not saying that Al Qaeda is filled with madmen because they're terrorists. I'm saying Al Qaeda is filled with madmen because to them, terrorism is the only course of action in their eyes. They've never tried to achieve any aim peacefully, rather they only use violence.




Ah I see. I was referring to my justification for kicking the pagan off my property. I neglected to connect that thought process here. Well the thing is, the Palestinians don't have to believe that God gave the land to the Jews. They don't have to believe anything. They just need to pack up. Palestine can't do what I would do in my example because my God exists, there's does not. They've no authority, no magnate, nothing that God actually recognizes. Israel isn't asking Palestine to believe in the Bible. America isn't asking Palestine to believe in the Bible. All they need to know is that they need to move.

But I can turn your argument around. By staying on that land, is Palestine not forcing its views on the rest of the world?

Proof pliz?

Also, Palestinians are comprised of a majority of Muslims and some Christians btw.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

Proof pliz?

Also, Palestinians are comprised of a majority of Muslims and some Christians btw.

I take it you didn't get the memo. I'm not speaking to you. I'm speaking to The King of Beasts. With all due respect to your views, I have no personal interest in hearing anything you have to say. Oh I've seen you in these parts. I know you to be substantially knowledgable but simply, nothing you can contribute to this discussion, at this particular moment interests me. The floor belongs to Kaze Araki and one ZERO PHOENIX. I'll let you know when I have interest in your thoughts.

Well, scratch that. Kaze doesn't seem to be here or he's not responding and in that case I've no further interest in this discussion. So you and that other gentleman are free to carry on.

@Kaze Araki: I feel that you and I understand each other but we just disagree in this particular instance. :smart:That's fine and expected of the two of us.

The floor is now open to everyone. I thank you for your time and patience. If you wish to pursue this matter with me further Bloodrazor, I will be happy to oblige upon my return. Good day gentlemen.

 

[Bloodrazor]

I was speaking specifically to you.

And of course, I couldn't give a fuck if you were talking to "just" Kaze or not because evidently you're not the TC and you don't have any ability to stop me from commenting or discussing with you.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

I was speaking specifically to you.

And of course, I couldn't give a fuck if you were talking to "just" Kaze or not because evidently you're not the TC and you don't have any ability to stop me from commenting or discussing with you.

It's funny you should say that because while I have no such ability to prevent you from commenting, I do have the ability to ignore anything you might say. My apologies for being so coldly scientific, almost mechanical. I left a message on your page and we can continue this if you wish.

 

[Kaze Araki]

I'll give it another go and then leave it at that. I already said that "terrorism" as a practice was not an issue in and of itself. The U.S. was built on terrorism. You might say that I'm taking issue to Al Qaeda's terrorism without substance or purpose. When the Founding Fathers separated from the crowne, they had good reasons for doing so. And they only resorted to "terrorism" when all other methods had been exhausted. Terrorism was a last resort. The issue with Al Qaeda is that to them, terrorism is the ONLY resort. If they tried to do things peacefully and THEN resorted to terrorism when acts of diplomacy failed, then I'd cut them some slack. But that isn't the case now is it? I'm not saying that Al Qaeda is filled with madmen because they're terrorists. I'm saying Al Qaeda is filled with madmen because to them, terrorism is the only course of action in their eyes. They've never tried to achieve any aim peacefully, rather they only use violence.

I would still have to reject your argument. Even if Al Qaeda use terrorism exclusively as a mean, it still does not imply - to use your own words - "...nothing they do has purpose...". It only imply that they prefer to achieve their objectives via terrorism - and that's pretty much it.

Ah I see. I was referring to my justification for kicking the pagan off my property. I neglected to connect that thought process here. Well the thing is, the Palestinians don't have to believe that God gave the land to the Jews. They don't have to believe anything. They just need to pack up. Palestine can't do what I would do in my example because my God exists, there's does not. They've no authority, no magnate, nothing that God actually recognizes. Israel isn't asking Palestine to believe in the Bible. America isn't asking Palestine to believe in the Bible. All they need to know is that they need to move.

But I can turn your argument around. By staying on that land, is Palestine not forcing its views on the rest of the world?

If they don't have to believe in anything, there's no reason either for them to leave their homeland. By forcing them to relinquish their rights, you already asserting your religion unto them - whether you admitted it or not.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

If they don't have to believe in anything, there's no reason either for them to leave their homeland. By forcing them to relinquish their rights, you already asserting your religion unto them - whether you admitted it or not.

I think you skimmed over my point. By remaining there, Palestine is also forcing their religious views on others. They do not retain land because of some historic development or series thereof. That may be the "talk" in the political arena but the people of Palestine believe they have a divine right to live there. Maintaining that viewpoint and maintaining their residence there is the same as them forcing their religious views on the world.

 

[Kaze Araki]

I think you skimmed over my point. By remaining there, Palestine is also forcing their religious views on others. They do not retain land because of some historic development or series thereof. That may be the "talk" in the political arena but the people of Palestine believe they have a divine right to live there. Maintaining that viewpoint and maintaining their residence there is the same as them forcing their religious views on the world.

I am not aware of "divine right" as the reason why the Palestinians live there - they live there simply because it is their homeland. To the contrary, it was the Zionists Jews who immigrate from Europe to Palestine with the dogma that the land is promised to them by God entranced in their brains.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

I am not aware of "divine right" as the reason why the Palestinians live there - they live there simply because it is their homeland. To the contrary, it was the Zionists Jews who immigrate from Europe to Palestine with the dogma that the land is promised to them by God entranced in their brains.

Evidence sir?

 

[Kaze Araki]

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry


Cold Spring Harbor, New York--As fighting continues in the Middle East, a new genetic study shows that many Arabs and Jews are closely related. More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.

The results match historical accounts that Moslem Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel and the Sinai. They were descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times. And in a recent study of 1371 men from around the world, geneticist Michael Hammer from the University of Arizona in Tucson found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.

Intrigued by the genetic similarities between the two populations, geneticist Ariella Oppenheim of Hebrew University in Jerusalem, who collaborated on the earlier study, focused on Arab and Jewish men. Her team examined the Y chromosomes of 119 Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews and 143 Israeli and Palestinian Arabs. Many of the Jewish subjects were descended from ancestors who presumably originated in the Levant but dispersed throughout Europe before returning to Israel in the past few generations; most of the Arab subjects could trace their ancestry to men who had lived in the region for centuries or longer. The Y chromosomes of many of the men had key segments of DNA that were so similar that they clustered into just one of three groups known as haplogroups. Other short segments of DNA called microsatellites were similar enough to reveal that the men must have had common ancestors within the past several thousand years. The study, reported here at a Human Origins and Disease conference, will appear in an upcoming issue of Nature Genetics.

Hammer praises the new study for "focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinian populations." Oppenheim's team found, for example, that Jews have mixed more with other populations, which makes sense because they were more likely to leave the Levant.

--ANN GIBBONS

http://bric.postech.ac.kr/science/97now/00_10now/001030a.html

 

[Zero Phoenix]

Blasphemy. :wtf:

 

[Kaze Araki]

The Arabized Palestinians populations (which includes Jews) originate from the same core ancient culture, the Canaanite's civilization.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

The Arabized Palestinians populations (which includes Jews) originate from the same core ancient culture, the Canaanite's civilization.

Blasphemy. :mad : I'm kidding. I trust your research. I'll concede. :smart:If anything you might say the Jews and Palestinians should be sharing the land. They are all brothers and sisters yes?

 

[Kaze Araki]

Agreed.
The problem is, the Israeli won't give back to their Palestinian brethern 22% of their original homeland.
Also to be noted, significant amount of Palestinians minority are Christians, and the treatment they received isn't any much better either from their Muslim counter part.
Even more mind-blowing, some devout Jews even against the State of Israel (see Neturei Karta) as they claim that the Kingdom of God must be delivered by God Himself and not artificially created by men - therefore Jews must remain in the diaspora until the deliverance day arrive.
But I don't endorse the Neturei Karta believe.
True to the Anarchist principle, land should belong to all humanity, or to quote the Great Woody Guthrie;

"...this is land your land, this land is my land..."
"...this land was made for you and me..."

[YOUTUBE]XaI5IRuS2aE[/YOUTUBE]
​

 

[Zero Phoenix]

Agreed. The problem is, the Israeli won't give back to their Palestinian brethern 22% of their original homeland. Also to be noted, significant amount of Palestinians minority are Christians, and the treatment they received isn't any much better either from their Muslim counter part. Even more mind-blowing, some devout Jews even against the State of Israel (see Neturei Karta) as they claim that the Kingdom of God must be delivered by God Himself and not artificially created by men - therefore Jews must remain in the diaspora until the deliverance day arrive.

I agree with that. I know it sounds strange but it's almost as though we're looking a group embarking on an Evangelion-esque trainwreck.

But I don't endorse the Neturei Karta believe. True to the Anarchist principle, land should belong to all humanity, or to quote the Great Woody Guthrie;

"...this is land your land, this land is my land..."
"...this land was made for you and me..."​

​

I'm more partial to Rousseau myself.
​

The first man who, having enclosed a piece of ground, bethought himself of saying This is mine, and found people simple enough to believe him, was the real founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this imposter; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody.

 

[Kaze Araki]

You somehow sounded like a Socialist, lol.
Anyway, I think we should end our exchanges here, so that others will have the opportunity to comment as well.

 

[Zero Phoenix]

You somehow sounded like a Socialist, lol. Anyway, I think we should end our exchanges here, so that others will have the opportunity to comment as well.

As usual you are wise. Our business here is finished so I will be sensitive to the needs of the other parties. :smart: